I'd love some thoughts about the notion of the district supplying templates (pre-slugged or just a format) for schools to do their SIP plans (where the district creates goals for the building)? We had this discussion in our presentation group and it got me wondering...
That sounds like a terrible idea. Every school is unique with different goals and different needs. PLUS, if the template is too restrictive, the building won't feel as much ownership. There's something to be said about guidance, but the district shouldn't make it fill-in-the-blank.
I agree with Cassie. And in spit of this some schools have found ways to work around these barriers to become highly successful in spite of this. I wonder where the middle ground is between no oversight and too much micro managing.
It seems that a template, by definition, is encouraging the notion of, "Fill this space." It is precisely this notion that gets a lot of good educational advocates jumping off the SIP bus. What you often end up with is a Trojan horse that everyone forgot to get in.
Hi Katie. In some ways I really appreciate a template as a guide, as long as it leaves room for a staff to build ownership of the goals. When something is handed down pre-slugged, I wonder what the goal is and what is truly valued by whomever is handing it down.
Thank you for the great conversations! I can't wait to dig into all of these SIPs. I might even pick one for the new assignment for analysis. While it would be good to look closely at my own school's, I might be too close to the culture that it came out of and fresh eyes on a fresh SIP might lead to more interesting analysis. I'm not sure, though....thoughts?
Since I'm an outsider, I am going to be strategic about my 'ask' for the SIP assignment and ask a building where I'd like to intern so I can begin to get up to speed on what they are doing.
I so appreciated the time to listen and compare approaches to developing and using a SIP. I am still struck by the fact that many leaders simply fulfill the obligation of completing one, yet inspired by the few who invest in it and find success with it. Allowing time to compare theory and practice is appreciated!
I wonder why drives leaders to that decision - fear? Too busy? "Been there - done that?" Why don't all leaders see the plan as an opportunity to set a course for success?
I agree...as usual. It is so disheartening to know that some things that are so foundational and could greatly impact student growth and achievement are not valued more. I wonder if some principal's are "protecting" their teams for a specific purpose, or if they truly don't value the process and what it has the potential to offer.
I actually find myself getting frustrated more and more with this idea of filling an obligation. However, it gets me excited to have the opportunity to lead in our school as I wrestle with my own vision and mission.
Today's class was enlightening and frustrating. The discussions were enlightening because I am gaining valuable insight into the foundations of what strong, effective schools do. However, it is frustrating because the school I am currently a part of does not value these foundations. As a result I often find myself walking a fine line of pressing my principal gently, while still respecting his authority and leadership.
I really enjoyed getting to be in your group and hearing about your situation. I hope your principal sees your incredible talent and values what you are able to bring to complement his leadership this year :-)
So, question: is it that the foundations aren't valued or that they are there, but not in the formal structures we've been discussing? My principal views the SIP as a box to check and a document that has very little meaning in the school, AND YET, the SIP actually is a part of the everyday life of the school just by the nature of how he expects us all to do our jobs (or, at least, it's getting there).
I also enjoyed hearing about the experiences in our group. I do think it is great you are pushing your principal gently because it is better for all kids in that building. Also, you are creating your personal list of things you would do differently when...
I'm excited to hear the follow up conversations with you about your leadership situation. In turn, it would be great if your leadership respected your leadership and authority as an asset. What is your leadership compensating for that would make you feel that way? Gotta be something.
In our discussion of the WAC that outlines school law on school improvement plans, I found it especially interesting to hear how different principals have interpreted this law. Even further, I found it interesting that this law is perhaps not as strictly enforced (unless a school is a Focus & Priority School). This concept was reinforced in our presentations of Principal SIP Interviews. Within our small group this evening, principals and schools ranged in their development and use of SIPs. However, despite the degree of fidelity to the SIP, a common thread between all of the schools in our group discussion was the principal's emphasis on the role of relationships. Using this human resources frame is an essential component to leadership as shown in the interview's by my group tonight.
I appreciated the variety of School Improvement Plans shared tonight. It was especially interested to see the results of the interviews (three) Kris completed with three different principals. It is interesting to me that through all of our sharing I didn't hear anything about "educational equity" as outlined in the School Law on School Improvement Plans WAC description. Although the demographic information is part of our current and future SIP, at WAVA, we have not had focused conversations yet.
Great opportunity to share out our interviews! I appreciated the perspectives of our teammates and the insight into a variety of SIP plans. It again, will help when the I have the opportunity to lead a SIP by seeing the whole picture and offering different perspectives. One piece that was shared that I am still thinking about is the ideas of buy-in verses ownership.
Kris- I agree that doing the work of creating or revising a SIP will deepen our understanding of SIPs. In hearing examples of principals who created the SIP on their own versus those that had a CSIP committee, I envision having a committee (when I am a principal) so I can foster ownership of the SIP and its components.
Buy-in versus ownership... that is an interesting idea. How can a whole staff have ownership because the whole staff can't be part of the process (seems like that would take too long)?
There is that delicate balance between overburdening the staff with compliance and structures vs having the work be meaningful and owned by the whole staff. Not sure where the sweet spot is.
It was interesting to hear about the district templates used for school SIPs. It was pointed out that when templates are used, it can take the thinking out of the process and perhaps the meaning of what it was intended. A template could be of good use, but maybe not the norm. Also, what leads a principal down the path of believing SIPs are nothing more than a template task? Ego? Complacency?
I totally agree Ryan. My district uses a template and the CSIP is more of an afterthought than a guiding document. Maybe a template would be more useful to make minor revisions after an effective CSIP has been in place.
I learned a tremendous amount from comparing the experiences that each of us had when we were interviewing the principals. It was also great to see how the pieces have of what we have learned about like schedules and vision are all intertwined together.
My sentiments exactly! Learning about the processes that principals have the most control over definitely sheds light on where their priorities lie. With all of the responsibilities required of principals just to keep the building running, and with virtually no monitoring system checking school CSIPs, I can see how engaging in an effective CSIP development process can be pushed to the back burner.
I concur Ray. ALso, could there be too much too fast in implementing a SIP when you don't have buy-in? What if nobody wants ownership? For how long does one build relationships and trust? Great insights into your school!
A common theme among the principal interview presentations was the significance of building relationships to create buy-in and ownership of a CSIP. CSIPs built collectively-with contributions from all major stakeholders-produce the most meaningful change. Also, CSIP processes that are developed with a shared vision/mission as a guide produce the most student growth because all staff are focused on and supportive of a common goal. After interviewing my principal I realized that my school viewed CSIPs as a compliance issue, and not as an effective way to monitor continuous school improvement.
I'm wondering if you are viewing this as an opportunity to lead. If your principal does not value the SIP process is there another passion or motivator that he/she finds as a primary priority. It seems that treating SIP as compliance could be an indicator of quite a lot of things not just a lack of interest in the process. Maybe this would be a great way to combine your principals primary interests into measurable data goals???
It is said that the eyes are the windows to the soul. Could it be true of SIP's into the character of a school? It seems like a school's values are on display when a SIP is carefully examined. Not to be taken at face value, of course, but truly examined and analyzed. Perhaps a weak SIP shines a light on moral character and values being of higher priority than measurable counts of reading words per minute (Aimsweb). As mentioned in class, a strongly defined SIP could be more of a get on board or get run over document. However, it seemed to me that each SIP seemed to match the story behind the document. I personally am the proud owner of a school with a weak SIP. . . but we've got a plan. . . watch this space. -Corey
Like the master schedule, I think it does reveal something significant about the culture of the school and how the leader is managing his/her time and resources -- or maybe it also reflects a larger issues in the district culture and whether the school is allowed to use the SIP to grow or is a tool for punishing principals
Tonight was fabulous! I appreciated the ability to compare and contrast principal's ideas and values regarding the SIP plan. It was clear that schools with a strong focus on goals had better results! Thank you!
I am learning a lot about CSIP plans. I have been out of the classroom for 10 years now, and not working in districts I have not followed any growth plans at all. I have worked closely with people in the OSSS office and have heard about their ventures out to the schools, so now I can put some connections with the references they talk about. For example, the turnaround principals and the WACs and how they tie back with what I am seeing out in the field. During Principal interviews I found that others also felt that the principals were okay with being really honest! Some principals have well- thought out plans, others have checklists as their first priority is building relationships and culture so that it may be easier to focus on a new vision/mission as they start to rebuild. It seems that a lot of success comes from principals who take the time to build that trust and relationships. We also heard about schools that had built great plans behind doors and then shared, and a lot of teachers down feel they are empowered through that and will not necessarily feel connected and follow through.
Throughout the conversations during the presentation I am thinking about the difference between "buy-in" and "ownership." I am really interested about the steps and the strategies that it takes to move from one to the other. Another thing that I am thinking about is the in the School Law on School Improvement is how schools are recognizing and measuring growth on some of the components such as public speaking, interpersonal relationship skills and resiliency
I'm right with you on this concern. It seems that ownership is the pot at the end of the rainbow. Elusive to get right. Even in schools with the right personnel it's tough to create schedules, timelines, passion, and balance in a group to create this important work. Let me know if you find an interesting grab or recipe for success.
Thank you to everyone in my group for sharing. It was interesting hearing all the different perspectives and answers. One thing I noticed is that building relationships was a central theme for many schools. Three of the four schools have principals that have been there for less than five years. For one school, having a hard time with relationships is one reason the principal felt unsuccessful. We know relationships are critical for successful schools and building trust within your school. My question is how do you balance taking the time to build relationships and observing your staff; while being an effective leader implementing structures and procedures that are needed.
It is mind boggling that some Principals do not see the value of having a CSIP plan at their school. I also find it surprising that many of those who do have a CSIP have not included any of their stakeholders voices in it, which implies that they do not regard the beliefs and values of the very people that they are working with at the school. Could it be that they only value their own voice?
As a leader of a my own school, I want to develop a plan with my staff so that we all have ownership of it and strive to implement it with fidelity. After all, we are all working together to improve the lives of our students and it is their voices that should be reflected in the plan.
I enjoyed the process of interviewing a principal, thinking about our conversation and sharing about what I learned. I REALLY liked hearing about colleagues interviews and thinking about how buildings are the same and different.
Sharing SIP plans in class tonight provided an opportunity to see my peers presentations with different lenses. Leadership is challenging and so are the many variations presented tonight. I am also present to the fact that no matter how different our presentations were --they all had some things in common. For example, I heard people mention -mission & vision, building relationships and trusting all staff. I believe we are heading the right direction. Class is very practical and is also challenging me to stretch my thinking process in great ways.
I'd love some thoughts about the notion of the district supplying templates (pre-slugged or just a format) for schools to do their SIP plans (where the district creates goals for the building)? We had this discussion in our presentation group and it got me wondering...
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like a terrible idea. Every school is unique with different goals and different needs. PLUS, if the template is too restrictive, the building won't feel as much ownership. There's something to be said about guidance, but the district shouldn't make it fill-in-the-blank.
DeleteI agree with Cassie. And in spit of this some schools have found ways to work around these barriers to become highly successful in spite of this. I wonder where the middle ground is between no oversight and too much micro managing.
DeleteIt seems that a template, by definition, is encouraging the notion of, "Fill this space." It is precisely this notion that gets a lot of good educational advocates jumping off the SIP bus. What you often end up with is a Trojan horse that everyone forgot to get in.
DeleteHi Katie. In some ways I really appreciate a template as a guide, as long as it leaves room for a staff to build ownership of the goals. When something is handed down pre-slugged, I wonder what the goal is and what is truly valued by whomever is handing it down.
DeleteThank you for the great conversations! I can't wait to dig into all of these SIPs. I might even pick one for the new assignment for analysis. While it would be good to look closely at my own school's, I might be too close to the culture that it came out of and fresh eyes on a fresh SIP might lead to more interesting analysis. I'm not sure, though....thoughts?
ReplyDeleteSince I'm an outsider, I am going to be strategic about my 'ask' for the SIP assignment and ask a building where I'd like to intern so I can begin to get up to speed on what they are doing.
DeleteGreat idea! I might rethink what I will be doing for that assignment
DeleteI so appreciated the time to listen and compare approaches to developing and using a SIP. I am still struck by the fact that many leaders simply fulfill the obligation of completing one, yet inspired by the few who invest in it and find success with it. Allowing time to compare theory and practice is appreciated!
ReplyDeleteI wonder why drives leaders to that decision - fear? Too busy? "Been there - done that?" Why don't all leaders see the plan as an opportunity to set a course for success?
DeleteI agree...as usual. It is so disheartening to know that some things that are so foundational and could greatly impact student growth and achievement are not valued more. I wonder if some principal's are "protecting" their teams for a specific purpose, or if they truly don't value the process and what it has the potential to offer.
DeleteMichele, I agree that it is fascinating to see the compliance vs. integration of SIPs and how this varies between principals and schools.
DeleteI actually find myself getting frustrated more and more with this idea of filling an obligation. However, it gets me excited to have the opportunity to lead in our school as I wrestle with my own vision and mission.
DeleteToday's class was enlightening and frustrating. The discussions were enlightening because I am gaining valuable insight into the foundations of what strong, effective schools do. However, it is frustrating because the school I am currently a part of does not value these foundations. As a result I often find myself walking a fine line of pressing my principal gently, while still respecting his authority and leadership.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed getting to be in your group and hearing about your situation. I hope your principal sees your incredible talent and values what you are able to bring to complement his leadership this year :-)
DeleteI completely agree with you, but am looking positively towards 2015-16 SIP plans for all of our schools.
DeleteSo, question: is it that the foundations aren't valued or that they are there, but not in the formal structures we've been discussing? My principal views the SIP as a box to check and a document that has very little meaning in the school, AND YET, the SIP actually is a part of the everyday life of the school just by the nature of how he expects us all to do our jobs (or, at least, it's getting there).
DeleteI also enjoyed hearing about the experiences in our group. I do think it is great you are pushing your principal gently because it is better for all kids in that building. Also, you are creating your personal list of things you would do differently when...
DeleteI'm excited to hear the follow up conversations with you about your leadership situation. In turn, it would be great if your leadership respected your leadership and authority as an asset. What is your leadership compensating for that would make you feel that way? Gotta be something.
DeleteIn our discussion of the WAC that outlines school law on school improvement plans, I found it especially interesting to hear how different principals have interpreted this law. Even further, I found it interesting that this law is perhaps not as strictly enforced (unless a school is a Focus & Priority School). This concept was reinforced in our presentations of Principal SIP Interviews. Within our small group this evening, principals and schools ranged in their development and use of SIPs. However, despite the degree of fidelity to the SIP, a common thread between all of the schools in our group discussion was the principal's emphasis on the role of relationships. Using this human resources frame is an essential component to leadership as shown in the interview's by my group tonight.
ReplyDeleteSeems like a good sign that the common thread is the role of relationship?
DeleteInterpretation.... yes.
DeleteKate, yes I agree
DeleteI appreciated the variety of School Improvement Plans shared tonight. It was especially interested to see the results of the interviews (three) Kris completed with three different principals. It is interesting to me that through all of our sharing I didn't hear anything about "educational equity" as outlined in the School Law on School Improvement Plans WAC description. Although the demographic information is part of our current and future SIP, at WAVA, we have not had focused conversations yet.
ReplyDeleteGreat opportunity to share out our interviews! I appreciated the perspectives of our teammates and the insight into a variety of SIP plans. It again, will help when the I have the opportunity to lead a SIP by seeing the whole picture and offering different perspectives.
ReplyDeleteOne piece that was shared that I am still thinking about is the ideas of buy-in verses ownership.
Kris- I agree that doing the work of creating or revising a SIP will deepen our understanding of SIPs. In hearing examples of principals who created the SIP on their own versus those that had a CSIP committee, I envision having a committee (when I am a principal) so I can foster ownership of the SIP and its components.
DeleteBuy-in versus ownership... that is an interesting idea. How can a whole staff have ownership because the whole staff can't be part of the process (seems like that would take too long)?
DeleteThere is that delicate balance between overburdening the staff with compliance and structures vs having the work be meaningful and owned by the whole staff. Not sure where the sweet spot is.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIt was interesting to hear about the district templates used for school SIPs. It was pointed out that when templates are used, it can take the thinking out of the process and perhaps the meaning of what it was intended. A template could be of good use, but maybe not the norm. Also, what leads a principal down the path of believing SIPs are nothing more than a template task? Ego? Complacency?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree Ryan. My district uses a template and the CSIP is more of an afterthought than a guiding document. Maybe a template would be more useful to make minor revisions after an effective CSIP has been in place.
DeleteI understand where you are coming from. I also think it also has a lot to do with compliance and district oversight.
DeleteI like Derrick's idea of flipping it - the template as the way to make revisions rather than the launch of the CSIP process.
DeleteI learned a tremendous amount from comparing the experiences that each of us had when we were interviewing the principals. It was also great to see how the pieces have of what we have learned about like schedules and vision are all intertwined together.
ReplyDeleteMy sentiments exactly! Learning about the processes that principals have the most control over definitely sheds light on where their priorities lie. With all of the responsibilities required of principals just to keep the building running, and with virtually no monitoring system checking school CSIPs, I can see how engaging in an effective CSIP development process can be pushed to the back burner.
DeleteI concur Ray. ALso, could there be too much too fast in implementing a SIP when you don't have buy-in? What if nobody wants ownership? For how long does one build relationships and trust? Great insights into your school!
DeleteA common theme among the principal interview presentations was the significance of building relationships to create buy-in and ownership of a CSIP. CSIPs built collectively-with contributions from all major stakeholders-produce the most meaningful change. Also, CSIP processes that are developed with a shared vision/mission as a guide produce the most student growth because all staff are focused on and supportive of a common goal. After interviewing my principal I realized that my school viewed CSIPs as a compliance issue, and not as an effective way to monitor continuous school improvement.
ReplyDeleteI did appreciate how your principal is looking at how suspensions and performance are correlated.
DeleteI'm wondering if you are viewing this as an opportunity to lead. If your principal does not value the SIP process is there another passion or motivator that he/she finds as a primary priority. It seems that treating SIP as compliance could be an indicator of quite a lot of things not just a lack of interest in the process. Maybe this would be a great way to combine your principals primary interests into measurable data goals???
DeleteIt is said that the eyes are the windows to the soul. Could it be true of SIP's into the character of a school? It seems like a school's values are on display when a SIP is carefully examined. Not to be taken at face value, of course, but truly examined and analyzed. Perhaps a weak SIP shines a light on moral character and values being of higher priority than measurable counts of reading words per minute (Aimsweb). As mentioned in class, a strongly defined SIP could be more of a get on board or get run over document. However, it seemed to me that each SIP seemed to match the story behind the document. I personally am the proud owner of a school with a weak SIP. . . but we've got a plan. . . watch this space.
ReplyDelete-Corey
Awesome post!
DeleteLike the master schedule, I think it does reveal something significant about the culture of the school and how the leader is managing his/her time and resources -- or maybe it also reflects a larger issues in the district culture and whether the school is allowed to use the SIP to grow or is a tool for punishing principals
DeleteTonight was fabulous! I appreciated the ability to compare and contrast principal's ideas and values regarding the SIP plan. It was clear that schools with a strong focus on goals had better results! Thank you!
ReplyDeleteI agree. I think it helps to bring value to School Improvement Plans!
DeleteI am learning a lot about CSIP plans. I have been out of the classroom for 10 years now, and not working in districts I have not followed any growth plans at all. I have worked closely with people in the OSSS office and have heard about their ventures out to the schools, so now I can put some connections with the references they talk about. For example, the turnaround principals and the WACs and how they tie back with what I am seeing out in the field. During Principal interviews I found that others also felt that the principals were okay with being really honest! Some principals have well- thought out plans, others have checklists as their first priority is building relationships and culture so that it may be easier to focus on a new vision/mission as they start to rebuild. It seems that a lot of success comes from principals who take the time to build that trust and relationships. We also heard about schools that had built great plans behind doors and then shared, and a lot of teachers down feel they are empowered through that and will not necessarily feel connected and follow through.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the conversations during the presentation I am thinking about the difference between "buy-in" and "ownership." I am really interested about the steps and the strategies that it takes to move from one to the other. Another thing that I am thinking about is the in the School Law on School Improvement is how schools are recognizing and measuring growth on some of the components such as public speaking, interpersonal relationship skills and resiliency
ReplyDeleteI'm right with you on this concern. It seems that ownership is the pot at the end of the rainbow. Elusive to get right. Even in schools with the right personnel it's tough to create schedules, timelines, passion, and balance in a group to create this important work. Let me know if you find an interesting grab or recipe for success.
DeleteI agree. Ownership seems to be the linchpin to cooperation within an organization.
DeleteThank you to everyone in my group for sharing. It was interesting hearing all the different perspectives and answers. One thing I noticed is that building relationships was a central theme for many schools. Three of the four schools have principals that have been there for less than five years. For one school, having a hard time with relationships is one reason the principal felt unsuccessful. We know relationships are critical for successful schools and building trust within your school. My question is how do you balance taking the time to build relationships and observing your staff; while being an effective leader implementing structures and procedures that are needed.
ReplyDeleteIt is mind boggling that some Principals do not see the value of having a CSIP plan at their school. I also find it surprising that many of those who do have a CSIP have not included any of their stakeholders voices in it, which implies that they do not regard the beliefs and values of the very people that they are working with at the school. Could it be that they only value their own voice?
ReplyDeleteAs a leader of a my own school, I want to develop a plan with my staff so that we all have ownership of it and strive to implement it with fidelity. After all, we are all working together to improve the lives of our students and it is their voices that should be reflected in the plan.
I enjoyed the process of interviewing a principal, thinking about our conversation and sharing about what I learned. I REALLY liked hearing about colleagues interviews and thinking about how buildings are the same and different.
ReplyDeleteSharing SIP plans in class tonight provided an opportunity to see my peers presentations with different lenses. Leadership is challenging and so are the many variations presented tonight. I am also present to the fact that no matter how different our presentations were --they all had some things in common. For example, I heard people mention -mission & vision, building relationships and trusting all staff. I believe we are heading the right direction. Class is very practical and is also challenging me to stretch my thinking process in great ways.
ReplyDeleteI loved the sharing CSIP interviews. It was a fantastic activity because it allowed us to hear from each other's findings. Thank you Glenn.
ReplyDeleteKris did a great job of interviewing three different principals and comparing different SIP plans and outcomes as a result of each.
ReplyDeleteI saw wonderful SIP interviews and surprised at hearing how many principals really didn't use it at their schools.
ReplyDelete