Thank you Dr. Murphy for a great presentation---I loved your perspective and "real" life view of data and how our focus needs to go back on "our kids" and not necessarily their "numbers". The conversation about assessment and how we are using it, has me thinking---I am going to bring this conversation to our staff and administration. I feel this needs to be addressed, what are our core values and philosophy on classroom based assessment? What are we trying to find out or problem solve through these classroom based assessments?
I am also going to ask my administrator about WAM's (kid by kid data), and who has access to this---and if I can explore it.
Can I just say, I think I understand student growth percentiles!! This is super exciting to me. I learned about them about three years ago in Kent and they went, zoom, straight over my head. So thank you Dr. Malone and Ben!! Thank you Dr. Murphy for bringing such a real, inspirational approach to the SIP. I really appreciated the focus on student achievement and what that means and how it looks in the real world. Achieving on high stakes test does not guarantee that students will succeed in life BUT, it gives us confidence that we are moving in the right direction. Loved that. You are all great and I am so enjoying learning and growing with you. This program has already been monumentally transformative for me at a personal and professional level. Go Cougs
Alyssa I totally agree! he definitely caused me to think about the SIP through a different lens! And the importance of going about it the "right way". With thoughtful and meaningful purpose at the forefront. It's not a document to take lightly OR jump in to in our first year. Which is what I thought I would want to do first initially.
I agree completely Alyssa. I enjoyed the real life connection and how students are way more than their standardized test score it change my perspective. Today I walked I in my classroom and treated students a lot more differently than I had before. I don't think I've never mistreated them,but I definitely felt the pressure of standardized testing; however, today, I felt like this student is a student that will be a wonderful member of society despite his standardized test scores. I also enjoyed our walk and talk thank you for making a connection about our progress in this process it was nice to talk about shoes.
Wow. Just wow! I really love talking data!!!The SGP's are great, I really liked talking about the MGPs, and how they may impact instructional decisions at the building level. I am so appreciative of Glenn for connecting us to so many amazing people in Education. We truly are getting the whole perspective, and connections within Education on top! Thank you to Dr Murphy for your candid perspective and great presentation. Kids truly are the heart of the matter, not numbers, and in this data-driven era we are in it's important not to forget why we are here. Teaching the whole child, the personal connections, the memories. That's what really drives success. Hey, it sounds a lot like Dr. Yeomans, Realtionships, relationships, relationships! Thank you.
I enjoyed tonight’s class for a number of reasons. I thought Dr. Murphy was honest and realistic. His first question to us about what we want (as a parent) for our children put everything into perspective. I look at my own two and I want so much more for them than simply high test scores. Although, as a teacher, I watch their academics closely because I know those scores will eventually have an impact on the choices available to them at graduation. The video clip that Dr. Murphy shared was inspiring. The principal we watched had definitely worked to develop a culture where relationships with students and data driven instruction were of utmost importance. Being able to “problem find” while looking at data in small groups was a perfect way to end the evening.
I loved the video clip as well! We've been talking a lot about growth mindset in our building, so I'm going to share the clip with my principal and see if we can use it during a staff meeting. We can focus on growth mindset, but also data and the importance of using it daily. Maybe it'll help focus our PLC time?!
Loved last night's class! Dr. Murphy's honesty and realistic approach with the SIP plan was humbling. The discussion around having hard conversations with teachers is spot on. Those conversations are uncomfortable and should be, but if they are centered around data then the discussion should not be taken as a personal attack but rather as a problem solving opportunity focused on student achievement. I loved this statement..."student achievement scores aren't a guarantee of success beyond high school, but gives schools confidence that they can be."
I am going to ask my principal about WAM's. I would like to see our student growth percentiles to see where our students are.
Kristin, I liked that class a lot too, always so much to think about! I wrote that same quote down. I liked his realistic approach too, loved the connection between teachers and parents- and that not everything is measureable. Great class!
I think I'm starting to crack under pressure. I find myself walking and talking to no one in public places. People have stopped me and asked are you talking to me? But I'm not in embarrassed because I'm reciting student growth percentile and index scores and this time I finally feel like I got it. I'm repeating it to myself ! or my imaginary friend so I can explain it to my staff. I'm also constantly checking off my to do list because there's tons of work. However, I'm also so excited about this last week because the last few presenters that we have had have given me such a new look on education that it's rewarding. I'm so happy I'm in this process it is making me a better teacher and hopefully one day a great administrator.
Dr. Murphy was great to listen to and learn from. A couple things he said that stood out to me regarding the SIP is to be sure we are Setting the right goals and monitoring them, and that the single factor for student success is the classroom teacher. Which made me think that as a principal, I want to be supporting the teachers in my building the best I can, so they can use their time to improve their instruction and do what they do best, teach! The message he shared about the principal needing to have tough conversations with teachers about instruction, made me think about how important relationships are. If we have built a good relationship then those conversations may be a bit easier to come by, maybe even a natural thing. I loved that video, and the ideas presented in that. I loved the positive reinforcement with those kids who were working so hard, and I am sure feeling so thrilled about their individual success. I love that I am understanding student growth percentiles. Numbers and scores are interesting to look at and try to guess what is happening, it is exciting to think in our own buildings someday, knowing those kids, the classrooms, and teachers will really give us a chance to see if we can find the problem, and figure out what we might be able to do to make it better. I really love Thursday nights!
I kind of felt like taking cover when Patrick started pulling pins and tossing grenades into the lofty ideals of the SIP. I also felt like chuckling as a result of his very forward approach to "blowing up" some of the theoretical foundations I have started to build around the SIP - too much focus on the SIP can be restrictive and isolating, people won't remember the test scores in the end, watch out for the bureaucratic hoops. It was valuable for me to take a step back from the think-work around the mission and SIP and evaluate the value of the whole thing. As Patrick said, "It's about doing the right things", and that must be fluid. The moment the SIP process looses value, becomes rigid, or becomes overshadowed, is the time to reevaluate the systems of the SIP. School improvement is only as real as people make it. The video clip was an extraordinary image of that.
Two quotes were in the forefront of my reflection following Thursday's class. “A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is just drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.” – Old Proverb “Anyone who fails to prepare is preparing to fail.”Legendary basketball coach, John Wooden.
When Dr. Murphy first started out discussing the shortcomings on relying a SIP, I felt my head showing the universal sign for "shock" . I jerked my head back and bit and my eyebrows raised in wonderment. Yet, as he continued his thinking, I begin to make sense of what he was saying and the ramifications of his words. We must be working on "the right things". You can have the shiniest, flashiest and most detailed plan, yet if it is not the right work or a shared vision based on moral leadership to serve, it is only frosting on a cake of poo. On another note, in my conversations with a few principals and directors Friday, I found that understanding student growth percentiles, median growth percentiles and the bubble plotting are not understood and in some cases, not even known. I feel like we may have a "wizard of oz" who is behind the curtain and "we" do not know how to access the information or what to do with the information to make a difference for kids. Because we are not making this data accessible (and if it is accessible then we are not shining the light on the WHY we need to access this) for all working parties we have a situation where we are creating a scarecrow standing in our path stating, "this way...no that way....or could it be this way?" Without this knowledge we could end up in poppies, an evil forest or surrounded by flying monkeys. (I am go-to symbolic framer) I have heard, on more occasions than I care to think of...."Our school is a 80%...." As if that means we have little to no work to do. I am going to spend some time (as soon as I have time.....) looking at these schools and the information from the bubble plots to see how many kids fall below the median growth percentile. I would love to have these conversations. I also appreciated Dr. Murphy reminding us that test scores are but one indicator. This reminder was important for me. I spent the morning Friday at a MTSS meeting for PBIS thinking about the WHOLE child. It is about long-term development and success of each child to be healthy, safe, engaged and supported with equitable access to a challenging career and college ready education. We need to be looking at our attendance data, our discipline data and our perception data with the same scrutiny as our academic data. It is not secondary data to ponder, it is every bit as important (and you may argue MORE important) We need to be accountable to the WHOLE child not just to text scores. As loco parentis, it is more than just lip service. It IS the service we need to provide.
Ha ha, Love your frosting remark. You are right, it doesn't matter which fancy heading, binder, or neat graphics we have. If the plan is not developed from a shared vision it will collapse.
Dr. Murphy was a breath of fresh air for me on Thursday night. I really enjoyed his honesty and transparency. He wasn't there to convince us that the SIP or all of the data that will be thrown at us is going to turn our schools into rainbows and butterflies and everything will be perfect. A few things that stood out to me included when he said that just having a plan isn't going to result in student achievement and while student achievement may give you confidence and make you feel like you're heading in the right direction it doesn't necessarily guarantee future success. It's an on-going challenge, but that's what makes it fun and interesting! I also appreciated all of the time that Glenn gave us to look at and discuss SGPs. The discussions were great and it helped to work out some of the "kinks" that he have formulated in our heads about student growth and what the data is providing us.
After Thursday night’s session I am still thinking about the quote from Dr. Murphy’s presentation …. “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” ~Albert Einstein. This quote reminds me: 1) of the significance of using the “right” formative assessments to collect meaningful data to drive instruction. 2) of the importance of looking at the whole child and all of the wonderful characteristics each student exhibits but are not reflected through a formal assessment. Good things to think about as we move forward on our journey toward Admin.
I loved the quote too...its funny, that is the second time this week that an Einstein quote has made me stop and think...earlier this week it was "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” Using the right formative assessment is crucial!
Thursday night I finally got my head wrapped around student growth percentiles and finally feel like I can explain them now to others...feeling much more in the loop with data lingo, definitions, and application. I loved the article "using assessment thoughtfully." Appropriate use of assessment and data is something my 5th grade teachers are struggling with so I love that I continue to learn things that I can apply immediately in my building.
I also have rounded that corner on Student Growth Percentiles! I am excited to be able to start using this information. I am sure that we can get access from our administration. I am wishing that I were in Puyallup where you have that access very easily via Dr. Malone. I will go on the hunt for my access! Data like SGP can cause much heartburn for many people but I feel like I have gotten past that and now am excited to look for ways to use it.
Dr. Murphy I really appreciated your way of making us all think about what really is important and how we are going to justify why/how we feel.
Thank you Dr. Murphy for a great presentation---I loved your perspective and "real" life view of data and how our focus needs to go back on "our kids" and not necessarily their "numbers". The conversation about assessment and how we are using it, has me thinking---I am going to bring this conversation to our staff and administration. I feel this needs to be addressed, what are our core values and philosophy on classroom based assessment? What are we trying to find out or problem solve through these classroom based assessments?
ReplyDeleteI am also going to ask my administrator about WAM's (kid by kid data), and who has access to this---and if I can explore it.
Great ideas Jenna!!! It was an awesome presentation!!1
DeleteCan I just say, I think I understand student growth percentiles!! This is super exciting to me. I learned about them about three years ago in Kent and they went, zoom, straight over my head. So thank you Dr. Malone and Ben!!
ReplyDeleteThank you Dr. Murphy for bringing such a real, inspirational approach to the SIP. I really appreciated the focus on student achievement and what that means and how it looks in the real world. Achieving on high stakes test does not guarantee that students will succeed in life BUT, it gives us confidence that we are moving in the right direction. Loved that.
You are all great and I am so enjoying learning and growing with you. This program has already been monumentally transformative for me at a personal and professional level.
Go Cougs
Alyssa I totally agree! he definitely caused me to think about the SIP through a different lens! And the importance of going about it the "right way". With thoughtful and meaningful purpose at the forefront. It's not a document to take lightly OR jump in to in our first year. Which is what I thought I would want to do first initially.
DeleteI agree completely Alyssa. I enjoyed the real life connection and how students are way more than their standardized test score it change my perspective. Today I walked I in my classroom and treated students a lot more differently than I had before. I don't think I've never mistreated them,but I definitely felt the pressure of standardized testing; however, today, I felt like this student is a student that will be a wonderful member of society despite his standardized test scores. I also enjoyed our walk and talk thank you for making a connection about our progress in this process it was nice to talk about shoes.
DeleteWow. Just wow! I really love talking data!!!The SGP's are great, I really liked talking about the MGPs, and how they may impact instructional decisions at the building level. I am so appreciative of Glenn for connecting us to so many amazing people in Education. We truly are getting the whole perspective, and connections within Education on top! Thank you to Dr Murphy for your candid perspective and great presentation. Kids truly are the heart of the matter, not numbers, and in this data-driven era we are in it's important not to forget why we are here. Teaching the whole child, the personal connections, the memories. That's what really drives success. Hey, it sounds a lot like Dr. Yeomans, Realtionships, relationships, relationships! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteWell said, Melissa! We are not in the business of making cars - we are working with human beings and all the joys that go with it:)
DeleteYes we are Sari! We need to savor the moments!
DeleteMelissa -- I'm also enjoying the fact that we are getting a big picture look at education. It's making for some great conversations in class as well.
DeleteI enjoyed tonight’s class for a number of reasons. I thought Dr. Murphy was honest and realistic. His first question to us about what we want (as a parent) for our children put everything into perspective. I look at my own two and I want so much more for them than simply high test scores. Although, as a teacher, I watch their academics closely because I know those scores will eventually have an impact on the choices available to them at graduation. The video clip that Dr. Murphy shared was inspiring. The principal we watched had definitely worked to develop a culture where relationships with students and data driven instruction were of utmost importance. Being able to “problem find” while looking at data in small groups was a perfect way to end the evening.
ReplyDeleteI loved the video clip as well! We've been talking a lot about growth mindset in our building, so I'm going to share the clip with my principal and see if we can use it during a staff meeting. We can focus on growth mindset, but also data and the importance of using it daily. Maybe it'll help focus our PLC time?!
DeleteI concur Sari, the opportunity to “problem find” was a great way to end our session.
DeleteLoved last night's class! Dr. Murphy's honesty and realistic approach with the SIP plan was humbling. The discussion around having hard conversations with teachers is spot on. Those conversations are uncomfortable and should be, but if they are centered around data then the discussion should not be taken as a personal attack but rather as a problem solving opportunity focused on student achievement. I loved this statement..."student achievement scores aren't a guarantee of success beyond high school, but gives schools confidence that they can be."
ReplyDeleteI am going to ask my principal about WAM's. I would like to see our student growth percentiles to see where our students are.
Kristin, I liked that class a lot too, always so much to think about! I wrote that same quote down. I liked his realistic approach too, loved the connection between teachers and parents- and that not everything is measureable. Great class!
DeleteI think I'm starting to crack under pressure. I find myself walking and talking to no one in public places. People have stopped me and asked are you talking to me? But I'm not in embarrassed because I'm reciting student growth percentile and index scores and this time I finally feel like I got it. I'm repeating it to myself
ReplyDelete! or my imaginary friend so I can explain it to my staff. I'm also constantly checking off my to do list because there's tons of work. However, I'm also so excited about this last week because the last few presenters that we have had have given me such a new look on education that it's rewarding. I'm so happy I'm in this process it is making me a better teacher and hopefully one day a great administrator.
Your comment is awesome! At times I think I might be going a little nuts myself. It's fun, ain't it?
DeleteDr. Murphy was great to listen to and learn from. A couple things he said that stood out to me regarding the SIP is to be sure we are Setting the right goals and monitoring them, and that the single factor for student success is the classroom teacher. Which made me think that as a principal, I want to be supporting the teachers in my building the best I can, so they can use their time to improve their instruction and do what they do best, teach! The message he shared about the principal needing to have tough conversations with teachers about instruction, made me think about how important relationships are. If we have built a good relationship then those conversations may be a bit easier to come by, maybe even a natural thing. I loved that video, and the ideas presented in that. I loved the positive reinforcement with those kids who were working so hard, and I am sure feeling so thrilled about their individual success.
ReplyDeleteI love that I am understanding student growth percentiles. Numbers and scores are interesting to look at and try to guess what is happening, it is exciting to think in our own buildings someday, knowing those kids, the classrooms, and teachers will really give us a chance to see if we can find the problem, and figure out what we might be able to do to make it better.
I really love Thursday nights!
I kind of felt like taking cover when Patrick started pulling pins and tossing grenades into the lofty ideals of the SIP. I also felt like chuckling as a result of his very forward approach to "blowing up" some of the theoretical foundations I have started to build around the SIP - too much focus on the SIP can be restrictive and isolating, people won't remember the test scores in the end, watch out for the bureaucratic hoops. It was valuable for me to take a step back from the think-work around the mission and SIP and evaluate the value of the whole thing. As Patrick said, "It's about doing the right things", and that must be fluid. The moment the SIP process looses value, becomes rigid, or becomes overshadowed, is the time to reevaluate the systems of the SIP. School improvement is only as real as people make it. The video clip was an extraordinary image of that.
ReplyDeleteI love this metaphor to the grenade. I completely agree and the cognitive dissonance was exactly what I needed to push my learning further.
DeleteThanks Brittane, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who heard and felt the shock blasts in the room. I, too, was challenged in my perceptions.
DeleteTwo quotes were in the forefront of my reflection following Thursday's class.
ReplyDelete“A vision without a plan is just a dream. A plan without a vision is just drudgery. But a vision with a plan can change the world.” – Old Proverb
“Anyone who fails to prepare is preparing to fail.”Legendary basketball coach, John Wooden.
When Dr. Murphy first started out discussing the shortcomings on relying a SIP, I felt my head showing the universal sign for "shock" . I jerked my head back and bit and my eyebrows raised in wonderment. Yet, as he continued his thinking, I begin to make sense of what he was saying and the ramifications of his words. We must be working on "the right things". You can have the shiniest, flashiest and most detailed plan, yet if it is not the right work or a shared vision based on moral leadership to serve, it is only frosting on a cake of poo.
On another note, in my conversations with a few principals and directors Friday, I found that understanding student growth percentiles, median growth percentiles and the bubble plotting are not understood and in some cases, not even known. I feel like we may have a "wizard of oz" who is behind the curtain and "we" do not know how to access the information or what to do with the information to make a difference for kids. Because we are not making this data accessible (and if it is accessible then we are not shining the light on the WHY we need to access this) for all working parties we have a situation where we are creating a scarecrow standing in our path stating, "this way...no that way....or could it be this way?" Without this knowledge we could end up in poppies, an evil forest or surrounded by flying monkeys. (I am go-to symbolic framer)
I have heard, on more occasions than I care to think of...."Our school is a 80%...." As if that means we have little to no work to do. I am going to spend some time (as soon as I have time.....) looking at these schools and the information from the bubble plots to see how many kids fall below the median growth percentile. I would love to have these conversations.
I also appreciated Dr. Murphy reminding us that test scores are but one indicator.
This reminder was important for me. I spent the morning Friday at a MTSS meeting for PBIS thinking about the WHOLE child. It is about long-term development and success of each child to be healthy, safe, engaged and supported with equitable access to a challenging career and college ready education. We need to be looking at our attendance data, our discipline data and our perception data with the same scrutiny as our academic data. It is not secondary data to ponder, it is every bit as important (and you may argue MORE important)
We need to be accountable to the WHOLE child not just to text scores. As loco parentis, it is more than just lip service. It IS the service we need to provide.
Ha ha, Love your frosting remark. You are right, it doesn't matter which fancy heading, binder, or neat graphics we have. If the plan is not developed from a shared vision it will collapse.
ReplyDeleteDr. Murphy was a breath of fresh air for me on Thursday night. I really enjoyed his honesty and transparency. He wasn't there to convince us that the SIP or all of the data that will be thrown at us is going to turn our schools into rainbows and butterflies and everything will be perfect. A few things that stood out to me included when he said that just having a plan isn't going to result in student achievement and while student achievement may give you confidence and make you feel like you're heading in the right direction it doesn't necessarily guarantee future success. It's an on-going challenge, but that's what makes it fun and interesting! I also appreciated all of the time that Glenn gave us to look at and discuss SGPs. The discussions were great and it helped to work out some of the "kinks" that he have formulated in our heads about student growth and what the data is providing us.
ReplyDeleteAfter Thursday night’s session I am still thinking about the quote from Dr. Murphy’s presentation …. “Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.” ~Albert Einstein.
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminds me:
1) of the significance of using the “right” formative assessments to collect meaningful data to drive instruction.
2) of the importance of looking at the whole child and all of the wonderful characteristics each student exhibits but are not reflected through a formal assessment.
Good things to think about as we move forward on our journey toward Admin.
I loved the quote too...its funny, that is the second time this week that an Einstein quote has made me stop and think...earlier this week it was "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” Using the right formative assessment is crucial!
DeleteThursday night I finally got my head wrapped around student growth percentiles and finally feel like I can explain them now to others...feeling much more in the loop with data lingo, definitions, and application. I loved the article "using assessment thoughtfully." Appropriate use of assessment and data is something my 5th grade teachers are struggling with so I love that I continue to learn things that I can apply immediately in my building.
ReplyDeleteI also have rounded that corner on Student Growth Percentiles! I am excited to be able to start using this information. I am sure that we can get access from our administration. I am wishing that I were in Puyallup where you have that access very easily via Dr. Malone. I will go on the hunt for my access! Data like SGP can cause much heartburn for many people but I feel like I have gotten past that and now am excited to look for ways to use it.
ReplyDeleteDr. Murphy I really appreciated your way of making us all think about what really is important and how we are going to justify why/how we feel.